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Not Mary Sue by JesIdres Not Mary Sue by JesIdres
These guys do not get enough of my love. Really, I should pay more attention to them.

For those of you who aren't familiar with my older work, this is James Cooper and Jess Idres. Whooligans may recognize James as the bartender of the Bar that the Doctor gets his Banana Daquiris and Chocolate Monkeys from. Jess waitstaffs when she feels James is spending too much time in there, or when she knows its going to be a wacky day.

I have jokingly referred to them as my Mary Sue and Gary Stu, but there's a problem with calling them that.

One, they're not Fan Characters. Not by a long shot. Sure they pop into other universes and basically every fanfic I attempt to write as either secondary characters or cameos, but they started out and have mostly been based in their own universe. It's a lot like ours, but magic and mythology exists as closely guarded international secrets.

Two, while they may have started out as rather perfect people, apparently I'm a sadomasochist and keep giving them my flaws and fleshing their dysfunctionality out a bit too well. Yes, James is the son of an elder god, the only thing he really got out of the deal is some invulnerability, strength and maybe a bit of lycanthropy as well. He dislikes his dad for leaving his mother, and will usually only save the world if bribed. He gets his bloodlust from his mother, who's a diehard Man U fan, and loves to sleep in. Jess, (who shares my pen name because she evolved from my online persona 12 years ago) is a mage/witch, but is a bit insecure about her relationships, is rather distrusting, and fully admits to being a little bit off in the head. She's a bit unsure of the responsibility she's due to inherit and tends to do things by herself. Is jealous that James's guitar gets more care than she does.

Third, after seeing what far too many 'real' Mary Sues are like here on deviantart, I'd rather shoot myself in the foot than ever go there. They frighten me like nothing else- are people really that delusional? I'd never demand fan art of them (though I always love seeing people's view of them), I'd never have other people fall in love with them, and I'd never let the fate of the universe rest on their shoulders. I wouldn't trust them with it. Small problems, like reuniting Rose and the Doctor or kicking Carrot's rear, maybe. But that's about it.

Ok, maybe they are Mary Sues. But they are fun to mess around with.

And if you don't know who Dicky Barrett is, I feel sorry for you.
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:iconrababco:
rababco Featured By Owner Feb 14, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Based on your characters I think you'd like the Percy Jackson series.
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:iconjesidres:
JesIdres Featured By Owner Feb 14, 2012  Professional General Artist
A little bit, but you'd be surprised....
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:iconschroedertrombone:
SchroederTrombone Featured By Owner Oct 12, 2008
I know who Dicky Barrett is! Since you do too, I love you!!!
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:iconjesidres:
JesIdres Featured By Owner Oct 13, 2008  Professional General Artist
WHOOOOT!
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:iconbubbles123karate:
bubbles123karate Featured By Owner Apr 13, 2008  Student General Artist
i actually have a doctor who oc, and she's a shapeshifting cat called tigger. about the mary sue stuff, if they have realistic flaws i dont think they are mary sue/gary stu. i admit, i often use myself for a starting point with ocs, until they start telling me what they are like. the most extreme of these was actually for my original manga idea, the dundernop chronicles, max started off as me minus glasses. then she got her hair dyed while i wasnt looking, and somehow ended up afraid of dogs.
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:iconizzie88:
IzZiE88 Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2008
:D
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:iconjesidres:
JesIdres Featured By Owner Mar 8, 2008  Professional General Artist
:D
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:iconpyskwynn:
pyskwynn Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2008
Oh wow, this is like a blast from the past! A long, long time ago, I used to read (and love! :D) the comic these two were in. Do you still draw it? I particularly love the way you drew Jess's figure in this picture, and the expression on James's face is very good. I really like Jess's outfit, too.
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:iconjesidres:
JesIdres Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2008  Professional General Artist
I've put it on hiatus at the moment, but I'd like to get back into it at some point- thank you so much.
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:iconkitty-demon18:
kitty-demon18 Featured By Owner Feb 13, 2008
i think they're both brilliant, and i love that james has to be bribed to save the world- that just cracks me up, jess is lovely and i want her outfit cause it's just awesome
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:iconjesidres:
JesIdres Featured By Owner Feb 13, 2008  Professional General Artist
Thank you!
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:iconbillierose28:
Billierose28 Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2008
WOW! Love it!
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:iconjesidres:
JesIdres Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2008  Professional General Artist
Thank you!
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:iconbillierose28:
Billierose28 Featured By Owner Feb 13, 2008
it's okay!
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:iconemery-board:
Emery-Board Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2008  Hobbyist Photographer
Well said! I have a Time Lady OC, which I named Emerkohlvdor, or just Emer, and I constantly find myself dumbing her down because I am terrified of her going Mary Sue on me.

Right now, all she can do is hack into the Matrix -which she doesn't do very well -and set fire to pieces of the Capitol. She does that rather better . . . ;)

Don't ask me how she stays in the Academy -I think it's prolly some over-arching plot, but who knows? (Not me, that's for sure.)

I love the picture -very nice lines, and I especially likes Jess -her hair is lovely, like I wish mine was :D
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:iconjesidres:
JesIdres Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2008  Professional General Artist
Ooooooooo. Fire. Me likey. Yeah, I know the feeling though. Still can't decide if I want to keep the original factoid that James can speak any language when concussed. It was more for comedic value, but still....aaaaaaaaaagh
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:iconabolatinge:
abolatinge Featured By Owner Mar 31, 2008  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
OOh that sounds cool!
Please don't scrap that!
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:iconaurabolt:
Aurabolt Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2008
Sounds like you have the same deal that I do, people calling your characters Mary Sue/Gary Sue when they aren't. I really have been working on that, and I know they aren't now. Good for you with all this. ^_^
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:iconjesidres:
JesIdres Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2008  Professional General Artist
No, I call them Mary Sues when I shouldn't. But yeah, very annoyin'.
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:iconshadowedgold:
shadowedgold Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008
I just ran into a prime example of Mary-Sueness in a writing RPG, and my mind is still boggled. ::eyerolls:: 20 years old, how do they STILL think this is good characterization?!

Also, joining the small legion of women staring at James and wishing he'd jump off the screen. He's very, very pretty, even 2D. ;)
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:iconjesidres:
JesIdres Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2008  Professional General Artist
Dude, I draw him and I lust over him. I really need to draw him-er, them more often....
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:iconsailorshipper:
SailorShipper Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008
I wish I was as good at you at drawing expersions. You alway seem to caputer so much persolity in all of your art. Those two are always so much fun to see around.
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:iconjesidres:
JesIdres Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008  Professional General Artist
Thank you!
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:iconmelkitty:
Melkitty Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008
Of course, there ARE Mary Sue-Gary Stu characters even in the canon of a show or franchise. Wesley Crusher was thought to be Gene Roddenberry's Mary Sue character. :lol:
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:iconjesidres:
JesIdres Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008  Professional General Artist
Yes, that is true. But usually they are the characters that tend to stick out like sore thumbs. And it doesn't make them any more three dimensional. (or acceptable)
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:iconmelkitty:
Melkitty Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008
Yup. You wouldn't BELIEVE how many people find Wesley annoying!
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:icontjc-martin:
TJC-Martin Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008  Student
Fantastic, I want his T-shirt. :eyepopping:

In terms of the whole Mary Sue debate, as much as I hate the whole concept, I'd be lying if I said I'd never written a character based on me, But I project everything of myself onto that canvas, usually amplyfying my own insecurities and flaws, but thats probobly because I use my fiction as a way of exploring issues within my own life.

Regardless, They are great characters, and don't worry about people percieving them as Mary Sue's or Gary Stu's, The fact that they have flaws set them aside from that hellbreed to start with. And neither are they completly abstract ones I've come across. They are actual human problems.

People who actually look at your work, and care about what you have to say will know that you are far too talented to create walking cliches like Mary Sue's or Gary's.

... and your right, they are awesome characters, Id love to see more of them! :love:
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:iconjesidres:
JesIdres Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008  Professional General Artist
The do say write what you know, which I don't mind at all. It's the self-inserts that are pretty much flawless and are as three dimensional as sheet of cardboard that set off my allergic reactions.
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:iconvennalenda:
Vennalenda Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008
The return of the HAWT bartender guy!! (fangirl squee!) Sorry, can't help it, the first drawing you of yourse that i ever saw was where the doctor was drinking and james was cleaning a glass. I didn't know he was a serious charactar at that point, so i kept calling him hot bartender guy...which he still is :) luvage!
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:iconjesidres:
JesIdres Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008  Professional General Artist
Yeah, at some point he's going to show up with a sign that says "I do have a name, you know"
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:iconnenimefish:
Nenimefish Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008  Hobbyist General Artist
they're such cool characters :nod: its great that you've fleshed them out so well and their design is very different to all the other stuff you usually see around here. Great pic :)

and I agree, I hate mary sues. I admit that mine started off a bit mary sue but I soon fleshed her out. Mary sues make me scream...the perfection, the "everyone love me", the madness of the design...urgh :bleh:
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:iconjesidres:
JesIdres Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008  Professional General Artist
I know. My violent reaction to one caused the description. Many characters take a while to flesh out- but when you write a Mary Sue for 3 or four years and they're still flat as a sheet of paper? *headdesk*
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:iconnenimefish:
Nenimefish Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008  Hobbyist General Artist
Oh god yeah long term mary sues make me want to pull my eyes out. How can you not develop them?!
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:iconousas:
ousas Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008
I've always been of the opinion that proper Gary Stus and Mary Sues can do no wrong, if they are true self injections. It's just the way that sort of thing tends to work out. That or they become super angsty-take pity on me characters. Either of which can be extremely annoying. And while I've had very little opportunity (unfortunately) to see very much of Jess and James in action, I'm sure that they fit neither of those two descriptions. They sound like healthy human beings, not Sues/Stus.

(Sorry, I have to deal with several friends whose idea of good characterization is Stu-dom. Me and a couple of the lads have to frequently resist the urge to bash their brains in at times. ^^; )
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:iconjesidres:
JesIdres Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008  Professional General Artist
*Offers a crowbar for the friends* I always worry, which in a way I think keeps them from crossing that line. And now having seen some of the worst of the lot (and the person was convinced Disney would DIE for her character to star in a movie), I think I keep them from ever going there.
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:iconlady-librarian:
lady-librarian Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008
If there is one thing I have noticed about Sues it is that if you keep them around in your head long enough they "un-Sue" quite a bit. :D

Yay Jess and James!
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:iconjesidres:
JesIdres Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008  Professional General Artist
Yes, yes they do. Now I feel downright sorry for them.
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:iconsamich:
Samich Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008
Anytime I see James, I always think of the comic where the Doctor called him a show-off XD
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:iconjesidres:
JesIdres Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008  Professional General Artist
*snort*
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:iconvictoriarosetimelord:
VictoriaRoseTimelord Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008
Ahhh...they're back!!!
*sigh* It's like they never went away...

I love your little backstory for them too, as for putting them in other universes and stoof, that's awesome for characters that you've developed as much as you have done for these guys.
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:iconjesidres:
JesIdres Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008  Professional General Artist
Well, htey've been around in one form or another for 14 or so years. I need to restart their comic....
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:icongatec:
Gatec Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2008
the Comic is coming back? *big smile*
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:iconjesidres:
JesIdres Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2008  Professional General Artist
Mebbe?
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:iconvictoriarosetimelord:
VictoriaRoseTimelord Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2008
*ahem* So I was like...5 when you started with these guys?? Wow, I feel like a baby right now...

I did read some of their comic and I liked it muchly...starting it again would be awesome!!
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:iconkynaii:
Kynaii Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008
Yes, yes you do...
I BELIEVE you left us hanging with a potential wedding in the works.

hmmm?????
/eyes Jess.
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:iconsalemsgirl:
salemsgirl Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008
Feel sorry for me.... i have no idea who Dicky Barrett is. :( ;P

On another note, i think youre characters are more like main characters of stories - no author can write a story without putting some of themselves into a character, and i find the newer the writer the more like them the main characters will be. In a way thats how some of the best characters are, because it makes it so easy to write them. As long as you flesh out the foibles and negative sides of their personalities its never going to be a mary sue.
(If you really hate mary sues and bad fanfiction, try checking out this article i wrote. It may amuse....[link]
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:iconjesidres:
JesIdres Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008  Professional General Artist
Dicky Barrett is the lead singer of the Mighty Mighty Bosstones.

I was well aware of the horrors of Mary Suedom in fan fiction, but I was blissfully unaware of their prevalence in comics and doujin on dA...there is one in particular that was brought to my attention this week where the level of "do no wrong/all powerful/center of the universe" was absurd, and yet she thought it was the most in depth character ever (she came to light in a tracing drama).
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:iconsalemsgirl:
salemsgirl Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2008
Lol, was she twelve?? cos that I could possably understand... but damn! no character can be perfect. Everyone screws up and changes. Character development kicks butt! Its fun!
Mary Sues should be kept locked firmly in the fantasy world in ones own mind if you are over the age of 13. And even then you should try not to do anything youre going to regret later. My old fanfic just makes me laugh now... it was so bad but it served as an ideas springboard in year 7.
(btw when I say 'you' I dont mean you personaly, I mean people as a whole )
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:iconcelestiallights:
CelestialLights Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2008
Really? I too also had a fic, but it's not a fanfic, it's more like a school project and I hated it after rereading it after the past five years! My Character sucks so bad that I wanted to kick myself for it. Hahaha, Lol I even remember that I had so much spelling errors in that story. ^_^' I thought I had a decent story, but I was sooooo wrong. Lol.
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:iconsalemsgirl:
salemsgirl Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2008
It's like like going back and reading an old diary entry, or looking at your old sketchbooks.... only way more embarrasing ;P
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